DISCUSS and DEBATE 2014.
Letter from former compatriot Cyfamodwyr Geoff Ifan to a circular I sent out, see enlarged upon via following link >
Gethin,
Can't understand why you are lumping the Sixties resistance in Wales with the commemoration of the First World War.
Geth Says: Quite simply I was pointing out the 'Home Truth' that our FWA blathering on about fighting the English and all that was next to total fantasy compared to what those who fought Hitler so bravely during WWI. Much of what you say re WWI, I agree with but have pointed out that I do not see much Jingoism about regards this commemoration and indeed most of the documentaries being played out really put forward the big truths as you indicate yourselves. My Grand children have been doing this in School and the Schools are at least in Cymru/Wales are being educationally commemorative and in the way we would want them to. That a few Towns want to hold Military parades so allowing British Legion and Territorials plus 'Welsh Regiments' to march is what one would expect and I am not going to loose any sleep over it as pacifists are it seems winding themselves up about. I will be more concerned when in 2015 Wales and not least Monmouth Town and Llantrisant plus our Theatre Community start to commemorate and celebrate Azincourt 1415 - 2015. This should cause Nationalists to organise protests and maybe one huge march thru Monmouth town and otherwise educational protests in Llantrisant and else where?
Geoff: My take on it is simple - as a historical event of one of man's greatest follies. What with the senseless slaughter of millions, it deserves to be commemorated as the centenary of the event approaches, but as a sombre warning against imperialist jingoism and of course to remember the young men of all nations who perished, were wounded or traumatised by the slaughter. The documentary earlier this week about Queen Victoria's grandsons and how it was to a great degree a royal family quarrel over imperialistic control shows the tragic futility of it all and the sickeningly naïve response of ordinary citizens throughout Europe, and particularly in the British State.
Geth says: What has not been stated yet is how the British and French conspired against Germany to deny it much needed colonies to exploit for raw minerals to sustain Germany's Industrial Revolution and then Britain and American forced Japan towards war by denying oil to fuel their Industrial Revolution. So, yes it is all about Imperialism but lets not forget the Russian colonisation of the Caucuses, that I guess only leaves as with the slaughter of the American Civil War and Paris commune as the only righteous Wars. So where does Pacifism stand here and would it be Jingoistic to celebrate the North beating shits out of the South and freeing the slaves. See present day commemorations of the American Civil War:
Geth says: Think they have got that correct too, as a Commemoration not a celebration though what does the South have to celebrate but of course Communists would celebrate the Russian revolution no matter how much the slaughter later in Poland, Ukraine and Baltic States. As for the Spanish Civil war what is the Pacifist position on that and any of aforementioned, let alone Anti - Colonial Liberation struggles, not least the 30 odd years of 'troubles' in Occupied Ireland in our time, let alone in 1916 - 22 War of Independence. No war is black and white simplicity we can cherry pick any pacifism on, these Yesterday Docs as WWII The Last Heroes and even Battle Plan in some episodes are enough to make one a Pacifist. Your either a full on pacifist or not, myself am not like you a pacifist but am Anti - War as in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria. I think on the whole our militancy in the 'Sixties' was naïve and nothing to be worthy of for any Welsh Nationalist Jingoistic Tramp! Tramp Tramping about with handing out medals at Rali Cilmeri to one and all in later times. A few to those who did nothing worthy of a medal and isn't that the truth, my criticism of Balchder Cymru is in regards to them standing on shoulders of heroes, tramping about at Cilmeri and Abergele and not least waving White Eagle Resistance flags. All this I would have no problem with if only their members would rise to the occasion of campaigning and protests as we in the Patriotic Front did and a few of us still do actively, but no they do not. So, I can only view they as jingoistic Nationalists with no real point or purpose to their rather Pathetic Fringe activities but maybe that will all change soon as the Battle for Mynydd y Gwair becomes a big crunch of reality and 'Home Truths'.
Geoff: It's certainly nothing to celebrate and the British State's attempt to make it so has been seriously challenged. They had hoped to make serious use of it in their attempt to undermine Scotland's independence campaign and time will tell to what degree they have succeeded in that attempt, if at all.
Can't understand why you are lumping the Sixties resistance in Wales with the commemoration of the First World War.
Geth Says: Quite simply I was pointing out the 'Home Truth' that our FWA blathering on about fighting the English and all that was next to total fantasy compared to what those who fought Hitler so bravely during WWI. Much of what you say re WWI, I agree with but have pointed out that I do not see much Jingoism about regards this commemoration and indeed most of the documentaries being played out really put forward the big truths as you indicate yourselves. My Grand children have been doing this in School and the Schools are at least in Cymru/Wales are being educationally commemorative and in the way we would want them to. That a few Towns want to hold Military parades so allowing British Legion and Territorials plus 'Welsh Regiments' to march is what one would expect and I am not going to loose any sleep over it as pacifists are it seems winding themselves up about. I will be more concerned when in 2015 Wales and not least Monmouth Town and Llantrisant plus our Theatre Community start to commemorate and celebrate Azincourt 1415 - 2015. This should cause Nationalists to organise protests and maybe one huge march thru Monmouth town and otherwise educational protests in Llantrisant and else where?
Geoff: My take on it is simple - as a historical event of one of man's greatest follies. What with the senseless slaughter of millions, it deserves to be commemorated as the centenary of the event approaches, but as a sombre warning against imperialist jingoism and of course to remember the young men of all nations who perished, were wounded or traumatised by the slaughter. The documentary earlier this week about Queen Victoria's grandsons and how it was to a great degree a royal family quarrel over imperialistic control shows the tragic futility of it all and the sickeningly naïve response of ordinary citizens throughout Europe, and particularly in the British State.
Geth says: What has not been stated yet is how the British and French conspired against Germany to deny it much needed colonies to exploit for raw minerals to sustain Germany's Industrial Revolution and then Britain and American forced Japan towards war by denying oil to fuel their Industrial Revolution. So, yes it is all about Imperialism but lets not forget the Russian colonisation of the Caucuses, that I guess only leaves as with the slaughter of the American Civil War and Paris commune as the only righteous Wars. So where does Pacifism stand here and would it be Jingoistic to celebrate the North beating shits out of the South and freeing the slaves. See present day commemorations of the American Civil War:
Geth says: Think they have got that correct too, as a Commemoration not a celebration though what does the South have to celebrate but of course Communists would celebrate the Russian revolution no matter how much the slaughter later in Poland, Ukraine and Baltic States. As for the Spanish Civil war what is the Pacifist position on that and any of aforementioned, let alone Anti - Colonial Liberation struggles, not least the 30 odd years of 'troubles' in Occupied Ireland in our time, let alone in 1916 - 22 War of Independence. No war is black and white simplicity we can cherry pick any pacifism on, these Yesterday Docs as WWII The Last Heroes and even Battle Plan in some episodes are enough to make one a Pacifist. Your either a full on pacifist or not, myself am not like you a pacifist but am Anti - War as in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria. I think on the whole our militancy in the 'Sixties' was naïve and nothing to be worthy of for any Welsh Nationalist Jingoistic Tramp! Tramp Tramping about with handing out medals at Rali Cilmeri to one and all in later times. A few to those who did nothing worthy of a medal and isn't that the truth, my criticism of Balchder Cymru is in regards to them standing on shoulders of heroes, tramping about at Cilmeri and Abergele and not least waving White Eagle Resistance flags. All this I would have no problem with if only their members would rise to the occasion of campaigning and protests as we in the Patriotic Front did and a few of us still do actively, but no they do not. So, I can only view they as jingoistic Nationalists with no real point or purpose to their rather Pathetic Fringe activities but maybe that will all change soon as the Battle for Mynydd y Gwair becomes a big crunch of reality and 'Home Truths'.
Geoff: It's certainly nothing to celebrate and the British State's attempt to make it so has been seriously challenged. They had hoped to make serious use of it in their attempt to undermine Scotland's independence campaign and time will tell to what degree they have succeeded in that attempt, if at all.
Geth says: But pretty naïve to think the English would not do that and anyway was not the SNP much to blame for using the 600th Anniversary of Bannockburn being Nationalistically Jingoistic? The truth is more Scots will remember their known family dead of WWI than any way back at the Battle of Bannockburn, maybe they have shot themselves in the foot there but so to as Cameron with his silly appeal to Brits to convince Scots to stay in the Union. What ever, time for Welsh Nats to read Kidnapped, Red Guantlet and Waverly by Sir Walter Scott.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapped_(novel)
I guess Geoff and I agree here below:
Geoff: Although not a pacifist myself, I have the greatest admiration for those who refused to take the life of another man just because their political leaders told them to. Nationalists in Wales, from what I can gather, do oppose a celebration but warily accept commemoration, knowing full well that the authorities will try and milk it for all its worth as an exercise of how united Britain really is and how our Welsh forefathers fought and died for the British Empire.
Geth says: re below, interesting and what ever the politics, our duty must in particular honour our own family dead to ensure history records their heroism and sacrifice. To this end I have been busy sorting out our Family History War record mainly of Photos and Postcards and posting them off to WWI Archive and Commemoration Initiatives. I am having to deal with Libraries and Museums in Wales also British Army and Royal Navy archives and Museums. They are more than happy to receive material and assist with info as to where I can find war records etc, in 2015 I and Sian are going to France in association with Battle of Festubert anniversaries to remember her Grand Father who lost his life in that battle, body not found. We shall place Red poppies and Green Ivy Leaves at his inscription to unfound soldiers Memorial, the least we can do.
content2011_2013/welshww1.aspx
http://www.walesremembers.org/events_list/launch-of-the-great-war-and-the-valleys-online-exhibition/
Geth: If none of this interests you and you seriously want to commemorate and celebrate some Nationalist Welsh History, then why not the 1354 Birth of Owain Glyndwr. 660 Anniversary, go on go for it, much you could do both Nationally and Locally over coming years right up to 2016:
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Geoff: My grandfather, W. J. Davies, who was in the 4th Welsh T.A. battalion based in Llanelli was called up at the outbreak of the war and ended up facing Germany's massive assault at Mons in 1914. Miraculously, he escaped the first battle without a scratch and was then diverted to Egypt in preparation for the assault on Gallipoli. During the fighting there he and another Llanelli man, Bill Washer, crawled out under machine gun and artillery fire to rescue their wounded Captain, stranded in No Man's Land, who also hailed from Llanelli, successfully dragging him by his Sam Brown belt for over two hundred yards back to the safety of their trench for which both men were mentioned in despatches. The Captain later gave Bill and my grandfather cigarette cases engraved with his thanks for saving his life. A great uncle of mine, Owen Harries, lied about his age, he was 16, and also ended up in the trenches on the Gallipoli peninsula. He too survived, although sent home with trench-foot near the end of that particular fiasco.
Geth: Geoff if you watched WWII The Last Heroes you will find that none of these 'Old Men' now are jingoistic at all, they are very humble in remembrance of mates who died and memories of missing their families. If anything their awful experiences of War made them very much Anti - War.
Geoff: When I joined Plaid Cymru and attended my first meeting in Llanelli, Owen Harries was present and told me he had been a nationalist ever since his experiences in the Great War. The conflict had opened his eyes to what was really going on. In 1917 my grandfather ended up at the Battle of Paschendaele and survived that horror without harm too, ending the war with only the scars of its experience.
Geth: Paschendaele, a late night film the other night but could not keep my eyes open and within ten minutes I was sound asleep.
Geth: Re 1916, Me too, even though the Irish State might be using it jingoistically to make Irish People think they are free from England but now an EU Colony. But what would be an Irish Pacifist position, then and now?
Geoff: So, there is much for us to ponder over and remember and I will enjoy the documentaries and movies that hit our screens during the coming four years, but for me, the only time you will be seeing me marching will be along the streets of Dublin at Easter 2016.
Geoff
Gethin concludes: Maybe it is time for some Peace and Reconciliation of our own, even SF is considering it in still 'Occupied Ireland'. Facing reality and 'Home Truths' even that National Liberation Struggle close to Cymru with all it's bombings and maiming's, killing of Innocents, executions and tortures by both sides could make one oppose Militaristic Armed Liberation struggles. I certainly reject much I had to say FWA wise in the 'Sixties' connection but for most part that is a case of never again in any way wanting to encourage Welsh Youth to die for a Country ruled by Brits and Y Crachach Newydd when they would not even give a bead of sweat in campaigning to defend our land from the likes of the Windmill Masters.
Geth Stop Press : Plaid Cymru Welsh Nationalism and Cultural Nationalism is at core pacifists, in reality they would be content to be as as South Africa and Northern Island seek some Peace, Remembrance and Reconciliation in our medieval past. After all for the Plaid Pacifists even attendance at Rali Cilmeri must trouble their consciousness of War at any time for any reason is no good thing. This be the case with with Jill Evans PC/CND and other Cultural Nationalist Pacifists who attend Rali Cilmeri annually. Strikes me that 2014 would be a good year to stretch out the hand of Friend ship to our English Neighbours, after all many of our own fellow Countrymen and Women are anyway of English descent. Should we really post Millennium be hanging on to 'Medieval Hatreds' which were not anyway altogether 'Nationalist' as we know such in present times, not least in 1282, 1283 and 1284 as you will note in Anghofio Blog:
So, what do you think, do D&D should Peace, Remembrance and Reconciliation break out at Rali Cilmeri 2014 or do we still hang on to the Padraig Pearce belief that whilst Ireland Unfree will never be at Peace?
So, what do you think, do D&D should Peace, Remembrance and Reconciliation break out at Rali Cilmeri 2014 or do we still hang on to the Padraig Pearce belief that whilst Ireland Unfree will never be at Peace?
Above is a Wind Up or not maybe?
Controversial
